|
Post by LuciferIX on Jun 29, 2008 21:49:29 GMT 12
oh, LuciferIX, aren't you from ff.net? Sorry for the randomness, but I remember your username from somewhere. Ya that would be me, infamous for way too many reviews. As for the discussion at hand no matter what May still went to Pallet to meet up with Ash, only some of the original reasons vary, but even if she knew about the contests beforehand and already planned on traveling around Kanto why would she start off from Pallet when it was easier to get the the port in Vermilion. She could have just stopped along the way and visited Ash. But instead she went there first and learned that Ash was going to be traveling around Kanto again and was more than happy to tag along. So either way she was still wanting to probably travel with Ash and went there for that purpose.
|
|
|
Post by XAOTL on Jun 29, 2008 23:03:47 GMT 12
You took what I said out of context. I didn't mean the actual contest themselves, sure, she's going out there to impress the judges. But I find it hard to believe that May would go to Johto to impress Ash. >> She has her own life, she doesn't have to go out and do everything to link back to him. She dose have her own life, but being a part of the contest circuit it would be a tad difficult to not impress someone. As we have seen from the many rabid fan girls and fan boys of well known coordinators. She has a more independent personality. May in comparison to how she was originally, has grown quite a lot. but she is still quite a distance away from a character without any outside influence, such as Harley, who dose it all for reasons beyond the audience. She still has a drive from family and former Friends (as we know from the shots of rivals, and other... dudes they meet through their journey) and I'm sure that Ash is definitely somewhere in that portfolio. Especially after recalling all that he has done for her, to get where she is. The link between the two may not be symbiotic anymore, but would still remain strong. May is at that point where she is beginning to walk on her own two feet, and I'm sure that she'll look back to the people that helped her get there in the first place. And in turn show them how strong she is. Undisputedly one of the main figures right there is Ash. oh, and I got to give credit for you doing this. Defending your point on several fronts. Where just about no one else here could really get up (with the exception of Praetor.)
|
|
|
Post by aser4ever2009 on Jun 30, 2008 15:44:59 GMT 12
Can I take back what I said? xD;; Because I just realized, most of our debate so far is on things we have no idea of knowing. Just theories or thoughts... >> Aw thanks But how would she know about traveling with him? At the end of Hoenn, they all had a mini sign-off remember? They all probably thought they would never travel together again. Except maybe Brock and Ash, lol
|
|
|
Post by Praetor on Jun 30, 2008 21:05:22 GMT 12
Not just any theories and thoughts, but theories and thoughts that are clear.
May doesn't know if she will be traveling with Ash again, so that remains as a second goal. We know that by her response to Ash when he asked if she wants to travel with him through Kanto.
|
|
|
Post by aser4ever2009 on Jul 1, 2008 1:03:59 GMT 12
May said: Sure Ash, I'd love to! How does that mean it remains her second goal? He asked her a question, she answered. :x
|
|
|
Post by cascade88 on Jul 1, 2008 3:19:23 GMT 12
May said: Sure Ash, I'd love to! How does that mean it remains her second goal? He asked her a question, she answered. :x Yeah...saying that travelling with Ash is her second goal is a bit farfetched in my opinion. We seriously have no proof of that, and definitely not by her, as aser4ever said, simply answering a question. Yes, the way she answered the question was cute, and it obviously meant that she definitely wanted to travel with Ash again at that point in time, but to say that it confirms that her want to travel with him is an ever-present secondary goal is...like I said, kinda farfetched.
|
|
|
Post by aser4ever2009 on Jul 1, 2008 3:58:30 GMT 12
Yes, exactly. *nodnod* You can't prove that she wanted to travel with him again as a secondary goal
|
|
|
Post by LuciferIX on Jul 1, 2008 5:33:48 GMT 12
And this may be a little too simple but we really can't prove that it isn't either. To bad we can't see into the character's thoughts at times like these.
|
|
|
Post by aser4ever2009 on Jul 1, 2008 10:16:27 GMT 12
Agreed. can we stay off trying to debate the characters thoughts? We're not getting anywhere.... ummm, next point? But that doesn't mean she's intentionally trying to impress them though, right? Does an author write in order to impress people? No, and sometimes yes, but whether or not they're trying to impress people, there will always be someone out there who will like the book and become a fan of it, regardless of the author's intentions of writing it in the first place. Aw, that sounds beautiful =D But wasn't her reason to go to Johto was so she could become a stronger trainer for herself? Oh yeah, I just wanted to say: I feel really bad for debating against advanceshipping I don't hate it at all, it just seemed like no one was really going to debate against it.
|
|
|
Post by cascade88 on Jul 1, 2008 10:44:42 GMT 12
Agreed. can we stay off trying to debate the characters thoughts? We're not getting anywhere.... ummm, next point? But that doesn't mean she's intentionally trying to impress them though, right? Does an author write in order to impress people? No, and sometimes yes, but whether or not they're trying to impress people, there will always be someone out there who will like the book and become a fan of it, regardless of the author's intentions of writing it in the first place. Aw, that sounds beautiful =D But wasn't her reason to go to Johto was so she could become a stronger trainer for herself? Oh yeah, I just wanted to say: I feel really bad for debating against advanceshipping I don't hate it at all, it just seemed like no one was really going to debate against it. Don't feel bad for stating your opinions. After all, that is the purpose of this thread, right? To debate Advanceshipping hints. For one thing, you do make some good points along with everyone else, and for another, it'd be awfully boring if we all just simply got along, right? But even having said that, it's not like we don't get along. I mean, this hasn't turned into a flame war or bash war or anything--it's what it is, a debate. And I again have to say that I agree with you on the fact that she went to Johto to become stronger for herself, not to impress Ash or anyone else. Well, at the same time, I'm sure Ash's opinion of her means a lot to her, but I don't see her doing anything just for the sole purpose of gaining his praise/attention/approval. But anyway, I think this debate is going along fine, and seriously, no need to feel bad. =)
|
|
|
Post by Praetor on Jul 1, 2008 20:45:26 GMT 12
It's not typical of May to say "I'd love to..."; she would normally say something along the line of " Sure, okay, why not?"
Let's get inside May's head for a few moments.
There are four things that are a priority to May: her friends, Pokemon, family, and contest career. Keeping her Pokemon happy and healthy is something that can be done at any time, daily. Keeping contact with her family can be done through video-phone. Her family isn't likely to go anywhere far from home, with the exception of Max, but she can contact him through her parents. Her contest career, however, requires her to move from place to place to accomplish. It's not like she can complete contests on the spot. This is the reason why she can't be with Ash all the time. All the aforementioned goals or priorities are maintained and/or are being accomplished. I'm sure that all of us agree with that.
Her goal of making friends and spending time with them is in the middleground of being done and not being done. The most important friend to her is not Misty, Dawn, and not even Brock -- it is Ash, the first friend she made when she first started her journey, the friend that saved her life on a few occasions, and the friend that comforted her during hard times in their journey. As such, she clearly must have a special place in her heart for him. One is probably asking why does May not spend time with Ash through the video-phone, just as she does with her family? Spending time with Ash through the video-phone does not do justice. Talking with Ash through the video-phone is very different from Ash putting his hands on May's shoulders and giving her words of encourage for her contests. Not even May's parents play as big of a role as Ash. This is why traveling with Ash is a goal. It is not the first goal because May knows that she will see him again; which is why she is not TOO worried about traveling alone.
|
|
|
Post by aser4ever2009 on Jul 1, 2008 23:48:36 GMT 12
So if a friend of mine asked me if I would do something with them and I said: Sure I'd love to! That means I'm in love with them? I'm sorry, but I still don't see where you're pulling this from, it all seems like thoughts and theories. Especially since you're trying to justify something by using what you think and not actual concrete evidence. Okay, stating what Ash did for her doesn't immediately mean he's the most important person in her life. And you know what? I think she can talk to him through a video phone fine, what's the big deal, after all? They're friends. Again, all I see is you pulling out what you want for it to be between Ash and May and not what is really there. Has there ever been a time when May said that Ash was the most important person in her life? No. Oh yeah, thanks cascade88
|
|
|
Post by LuciferIX on Jul 2, 2008 4:37:10 GMT 12
I'll have to agree with you on that one, but there is no doubt that May holds a special place for Ash. Not necessarily as the most important but it would have to be one of the most important. Considering everything that he has done for her during their travels it would actually wouldn't be all that becoming of May just to lump Ash as nothing more than another friend. He has done more for her than any other person that we have seen in the series. Through his encouragement, his support, and actually literally saving her life; there are very few human beings that would not be able to go about their life without giving a second thought at having someone like that. So while Ash may not be the most important, there is definitly a unique spot just for him for all that he's done for her.
|
|
|
Post by JbstormburstADV on Jul 2, 2008 4:50:08 GMT 12
Well. let me sum down what I think about this: I do agree that Ash, in May's POV, is a very unique friend of hers. She'll never let her memories of him go, because then, it may cause a bit of inner conflict within her. Ash is the main reason why May is still a coordinator, and if May forgets that, any sense of idealistic goals that she has will be gone. So, she has to hold on to him, and she knows this. That's why she values him so much. I mean, wouldn't being saved by him multiple times, as well as being there for you through everything mean something?
|
|
|
Post by aser4ever2009 on Jul 2, 2008 12:31:03 GMT 12
Well. let me sum down what I think about this: I do agree that Ash, in May's POV, is a very unique friend of hers. She'll never let her memories of him go, because then, it may cause a bit of inner conflict within her. Ash is the main reason why May is still a coordinator, and if May forgets that, any sense of idealistic goals that she has will be gone. So, she has to hold on to him, and she knows this. That's why she values him so much. I mean, wouldn't being saved by him multiple times, as well as being there for you through everything mean something? Why May is still a coordinator? Eh? What did he do? I mean, other than that one time when he came to cheer her up after her contests (which was very sweet of him), but she wasn't thinking about quiting contests then. If anything, that time when she was depressed in the episode after the Kanto Grand Festival, it was Drew who helped her become excited about contests again. This seems way to over dramatic for Pokemon though, the stuff that you're saying. I mean, sure he saved her once or twice, but that doesn't mean all of the sudden, omg, he's the most important person in her life. They're friends. I won't say they don't have a good friendship, after all, I think it's pretty clear that they do and one thing I love about Advanceshipping is their friendship. But that doesn't necessarily mean that those times he stood by her and saved her they're like the most important people in each other's lives. After all, Drew too has been there for May his fair share and he even had a bigger effect on her when he came to help her in that one episode: Th Unbeatable Lightness of Seeing. I dunno Jbstormburst: this sounds more like a fanfic idea than an argument to me.... And yay, LuciferIX, you agree with me. ^_^
|
|