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Post by LuciferIX on Jul 2, 2008 13:43:23 GMT 12
Well you made a good point that really can't be contradicted without assuming things, when it comes to that its hard not to agree. Besides you can have a crush on someone and still not have them be the most important person to them, in fact right now there is a much better chance of that being Norman or Caroline.
I think what JB was referring more towards was the fact that Ash was the one who was first encouraging her to follow the idea of becoming a coordinator as well as all the times he helped her after she had some of her defeats. I wouldn't say that he's the reason that she's still a coordinator but he is a good part of the reason that she is a coordinator period.
Everyone was expecting May to follow Norman's example and possibly even become one of the heirs to the Petalburg Gym so the sudden switch to become a coordinator was one that couldn't have been an easy one for her to make. If anyone actually disagreed with her and said it vocally (such as a few of the times when Drew put her down) it could have broken more than just her wish. But getting the support of Ash and the others right after she made the decision solidified her goal to become one of the best coordinators in the world.
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Post by aser4ever2009 on Jul 2, 2008 18:56:47 GMT 12
But Ash wasn't the only one who was supporting her, right? There was Brock and Max as well. And what about Norman and Carolyn? They were behind her too.
Again, Ash and the others. :x
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Post by Praetor on Jul 2, 2008 20:13:26 GMT 12
This is pretty much the point I wanted to get across. Because Ash is important to May, she would take any chance she gets to travel with him.
There are other people who supported May, but the powerhouse behind her was and is Ash. Her parents hardly play a role in her contest career.
As4ever - I know how you feel about debating against Advanceshipping; I did it as well. Xaotl and I (mainly us) sparred against each other in the early pages of this thread.
LuciferIX:
What do you mean by that?
If compared to Ash, Ash would blow Drew out of the water in terms of who's more important and helpful. Ash has been there for May for more times than Drew has, and that one time Drew "helped" May was to get her back into contests because he enjoys battling his rivals.
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Post by XAOTL on Jul 2, 2008 21:20:43 GMT 12
Oh... the unbeatable lightness... that episode. I can never forget the 'unusual' titles that they give to the episodes. But still how do I put this.
As a figure Ash has been there from the start. Even now he is there somewhere for May (not as a BF but watch where I'm going with this), and we know that they think of each other, maybe not constantly. but on occasion.
There is close to no other character that have managed to get such a bond with May, with the exception of her Family. But where are they half the time, eh? All we get or Norman is him sitting on the sofa, no offense to the guy, but it sums up her Independence (she doesn't need a helping hand, she's not a baby anymore). Yet from the memories that we continue to get from either side of the fence, the phone calls that would come. There is still a bond between the two, regardless of how busy the gym/contest circuit may be. It's obvious that there is time spaced out between the two traveling for each other.
How extensive it is, is up to our imaginations. But seeing as the contests/gym, and their traveling is not interdependent, it is a hard task to accomplish, in comparison to, say Ash and Delia talking on the phone. You only have one variable there.
Those useless people who she beats in contests, make Friends with, then tell her to get to the GF, and she says yes and makes a promise to them.
There's them. If they weren't a force we wouldn't see them constantly popping up on the screens in the GF. Having as much screen time as Misty, and Drew. During their cameos.
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Post by aser4ever2009 on Jul 3, 2008 3:54:36 GMT 12
Um, trying to get in to the character's head much? I don't think she would take any chance to travel with Ash. I don't believe that. ^^ After all, Ash only helped her once in a while. Drew helped her from time to time as well. And well, who is it that has a bigger effect on her at the end of the day? Ash or Drew? Sure, at the beginning of her contest days, it was Ash that helped her, but as she went along he became more of a background character and others helped May more than he did, namely Drew. How many times has Ash been there for May? Two, maybe three times? And how about Drew? He's had his fair share of being there for her too.
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Post by cascade88 on Jul 3, 2008 4:30:20 GMT 12
Um, trying to get in to the character's head much? I don't think she would take any chance to travel with Ash. Well, yea, I agree that she wouldn’t necessarily jump at literally any chance she had to travel with him, like she’s completely desperate to be around him or something, but that’s definitely not to say that she wouldn’t like to travel with him again. While she might like to travel with him again, I seriously doubt it’s her main goal in life. I mean, seriously. I don't believe that. ^^ After all, Ash only helped her once in a while. Drew helped her from time to time as well. And well, who is it that has a bigger effect on her at the end of the day? Ash or Drew? Sure, at the beginning of her contest days, it was Ash that helped her, but as she went along he became more of a background character and others helped May more than he did, namely Drew. How many times has Ash been there for May? Two, maybe three times? And how about Drew? He's had his fair share of being there for her too. Well, this is where I actually have to disagree with you a little bit, sorry to say. First of all, yea, Drew gave her advice at times, sure. And I don’t believe that he only helped her for selfish purposes either--he had his not so bad moments. That said, Ash hasn’t only been there two or three times. He’s been there for her virtually everytime, even if he wasn’t giving actual advice or anything, he definitely always supported her, going as far as to blame himself for her first loss. That’s why when the ribbon was brought back up it was so important. It wasn’t the most romantic of things, but it showed that she truly holds dear something that reminds her of Ash. And yes, okay, she said travels with Ash and the others, but still, she split it with him, not Brock or Max, so at the end of the day, it’s something that bonds her with Ash; something that she obviously feels connects him with her. The only thing with that then, though, is whether or not it’s more of a friendshippy moment, or a romantic moment, but even so, a romantic relationship (a good one anyway) can’t bond between two people who don’t care about each other in the first place, before romantic implications are involved, so I consider it to be somewhat of a hint either way. So, I guess my main point in this is to say that Ash definitely was always there for her, and absolutely more so than Drew, and that May will always think of Ash fondly for that reason. But at the same time, there’s no evidence that she’s like in love with him or anything. If there was, then I could believe her wanting to do just about anything to be around him, but seriously, you can like someone without being obsessed and infatuated with them to the point of doing anything to be around them.
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Post by aser4ever2009 on Jul 3, 2008 12:09:52 GMT 12
Well, this is where I actually have to disagree with you a little bit, sorry to say. First of all, yea, Drew gave her advice at times, sure. And I don’t believe that he only helped her for selfish purposes either--he had his not so bad moments. That said, Ash hasn’t only been there two or three times. He’s been there for her virtually everytime, even if he wasn’t giving actual advice or anything, he definitely always supported her, going as far as to blame himself for her first loss. That’s why when the ribbon was brought back up it was so important. It wasn’t the most romantic of things, but it showed that she truly holds dear something that reminds her of Ash. And yes, okay, she said travels with Ash and the others, but still, she split it with him, not Brock or Max, so at the end of the day, it’s something that bonds her with Ash; something that she obviously feels connects him with her. The only thing with that then, though, is whether or not it’s more of a friendshippy moment, or a romantic moment, but even so, a romantic relationship (a good one anyway) can’t bond between two people who don’t care about each other in the first place, before romantic implications are involved, so I consider it to be somewhat of a hint either way. So, I guess my main point in this is to say that Ash definitely was always there for her, and absolutely more so than Drew, and that May will always think of Ash fondly for that reason. But at the same time, there’s no evidence that she’s like in love with him or anything. If there was, then I could believe her wanting to do just about anything to be around him, but seriously, you can like someone without being obsessed and infatuated with them to the point of doing anything to be around them. Yeah, I guess I really can't disagree with that ^^
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Post by LuciferIX on Jul 3, 2008 16:59:04 GMT 12
Wow, I go out to an amusement park for one day and you guys get pretty far ahead. Well might as well start with one of the questions directed to me. But Ash wasn't the only one who was supporting her, right? There was Brock and Max as well. And what about Norman and Carolyn? They were behind her too. I'm not saying that he was the only one supporting her, what I was saying was that praising her decision to become a coordinator so soon after she announced it made a bit of a difference in terms of her thinking back on the decision. Again, Ash and the others. :x That one was simply to prove that the wrong reaction to her decision could have changed many things and not specifically for Ash. Although there might be people that are completely able to go against anything that a group of a people around you choose, as a rule humans are social animals and will try to keep conformity by what is referred to as peer pressure. So if they gave a negative reaction to her wanting to become a coordinator the chances of her retracting that decision would be pretty high considering how highly she places her friends. in fact right now there is a much better chance of that being [glow=yellow,2,300] Norman or Caroline[/glow]. What do you mean by that? Think about it, who are the most important people in a pre-teen's life? Its not a trick question or anything, the simple fact is that virtually all kids consider their immediate family as the most important people in their lives. As for the immediate discussion I believe that Miranda has taken care of most of that one.
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Post by Praetor on Jul 3, 2008 20:28:11 GMT 12
This would be the reason why May is not desperate to travel with Ash. As Cascade mentioned, she feels connected with him through the ribbon, regardless of the distance between them. We know they (Ash included) do think of each other and the ribbons from the recent episode with May in it.
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Post by aser4ever2009 on Jul 14, 2008 15:43:41 GMT 12
Wow, this debate died ^^;; Is there anything else we can debate about? Any other hints?
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Post by Praetor on Jul 14, 2008 18:59:21 GMT 12
Well, sort of. It will be revived, sooner or later, when I'm in the mood to debate.
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Post by cascade88 on Jul 15, 2008 2:28:50 GMT 12
Well, if it's okay for me to suggest something, we could debate about a certain Luvdisc scene from movie 9. I mean, I personally believe it was a hint, but others may not. Could that be up for debate?
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Post by aser4ever2009 on Jul 17, 2008 9:32:52 GMT 12
Hmm, I don't know. I haven't really gotten around to watching the move (blame the new dubbed voices ) So, yeah, I don't think I'd be able to debate it. But idk, maybe there's another ASer who thinks it's not a hint and can debate it ^^
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Post by thedarkfiddler on Jul 17, 2008 9:34:28 GMT 12
A hint in the purest form. Yay for random input!
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Post by Praetor on Jul 17, 2008 21:48:38 GMT 12
I might debate against it when I'm in the mood to.
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